joelsuf
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Seriously. Preach it!
Wish some of Rollo's, Cernovich's or Roosh's goons could see this. Cuz a lot of them need to.
Daygame, where to start?
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Wish some of Rollo's, Cernovich's or Roosh's goons could see this. Cuz a lot of them need to.
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I don't know that their audiences will ever make their way to us here
Maybe?
But the difference between doing the work (us) and talking about the latest news of clown world (them) seems enough to deter them
It takes a lot of responsibility, wisdom, self-esteem, and courage to say... "Looks bad outside. Can't wait to dive in and build my own utopia in it"
Much easier to point and describe how terrible it
That said, Cernovich as a man seems like a outlier among them. I've talked with him, mostly business and journalism, and he's sharp. He doesn't live my lifestyle, but much respect to him as a G
His fans and others, are a lost cause though
Maybe?
But the difference between doing the work (us) and talking about the latest news of clown world (them) seems enough to deter them
It takes a lot of responsibility, wisdom, self-esteem, and courage to say... "Looks bad outside. Can't wait to dive in and build my own utopia in it"
Much easier to point and describe how terrible it
That said, Cernovich as a man seems like a outlier among them. I've talked with him, mostly business and journalism, and he's sharp. He doesn't live my lifestyle, but much respect to him as a G
His fans and others, are a lost cause though
joelsuf
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Exactly. A lot of manosphere goons simply do not have these traits and it is starting to show. They just want everything to go back to the 1850s and that will magically make everything better. Makes me laugh. But it's the "laugh or I'll cry" kind of laugh.
I write about this in one of my e-books. One can only shout about girl power so much before they sound like a raging radical feminist themselves. And one can only screech about patriarchal stuff so much before sounding like a female supremacist.
And believe me, this is certainly the vibe I have been getting from probably 90% of the manosphere over the last five or so years.
Activism is not masculine/alpha behavior no matter what the cause is because you are depending on others to change their rules to make things more convenient for you the activist. Is that a masculine trait? Hoping that someone changes their rules/culture/lifestyle/environment so you can be one ounce more convenient?
No it isn't. And men's groups are in a deep denial of this. And yes, these are the types who I want to eventually reach.
Disagree. I personally respect anyone who puts thier time and in many cases personal safety on the line to push for what they believe in (and not even always to make things more convenient for the activist in question) more than 99% of armchair warriors. You can question the efficacy of activism of course, evidence for both ways, but taking action to try and make changes in the face of personal danger is a wierd thing to call unmasculine. Ineffective? Another argument.
Hah, well put
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Damn. Well said. Thank you.
True "activisim" would be how you choose to act so you can enjoy your life in spite of the adversity around you
Those are the only men worth knowing and spending time with I assure you
Activism has a definition, it's not that. Masculinity...kinda has a definition, but you guys are getting smarts mixed up with masculinity. Many criminals went up against the system and lost butting their heads against adversity. Might not be smart, picked the wrong fight, but those same guys are definitely getting girls. Smart =/= masculine. You guys might not personally like activists or even consider them dumb but the idea that these guys are unmasculine is bizarre. In fact it's not even hard to find evidence activism is attractive to women if you look for it. To go full devils advocate, male history celebrates and remembers activists. We do not remember those that made themselves comfortable. Which choice you make is determined by your own values of course.
Also the notion that only guys who subscribe to your own personal values are worth talking to, very limiting. I know a number of beta guys who are happy doing what they do, and geniuses in fields I'm interested in. Be very wary of living in a bubble.
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Whoops. You missed the nuance of that the quotations expressed, and the clarification given as to how I would redefine it. Some of us still value wordplay as tool to express critical thinking.
Critical thinking meaning we understand why we hold our thoughts and can express them with facts, if you do not.
For instance:
No one implied or suggested the ideas you're raising. Those are new topics. Start a thread to explore them.
Rather what we're discussing here is the challenge a Brother had. He didn't respect himself to know that he deserves to walk and talk with confidence, in his own style.
Ultimately, this boils down to the essential mindset necessary to ensure you never lack the self-given, self-esteem to create positivity. I phrased it as: "Looks bad outside. Can't wait to dive in and build my own utopia in it"
You remember. You agreed with it.
Show us one consistently successful person who spends the majority of his time with people with less self-respect than himself.
Show us one enslaved man who is genuinely happy, by definition.
Show us the value of letting people who think poorly be part of your daily rise to build a lasting legacy.
Puns are not to my knowledge generally considered a tool to express critical thinking, and you don't express your thoughts with facts in the practice of critical thinking you evaluate and build a rational impartial argument supported by facts, what is this faux academic speak in aid of?
That's fair, but the thread diverged a long time ago so how off topic is too off topic? Certainly someone did raise those ideas as I quoted them in my post.
1. I suppose the facetious answer would be "pimps make good money", but by definition any highly successful person with a high level of self respect is statistically going to likely spend the majority of his time with people with less self respect than him, there isn't an infinite number of infinitely self respecting people to hang out with.
2. Not sure where the idea of slavery came up, unless you're referring to beta guys, in which case if you genuinely have never met any happy beta guys then I can only assume you're in one of the least happy towns on earth.
3. If I'm hiring an accountant I don't need to know how spiritually fulfilled he is, I just need to know if he can do my accounts. I don't need to vet the people I interact with for not "thinking poorly", that's some cult stuff right there man.
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False. There are plenty of people like this at all levels in all walks of life. This is true of any social experience. Start playing tennis seriously, and you'll connect with tennis players at your level or higher. You're in a Group with men looking to develop themselves surely the irony of your thought isn't completely lost on you
False. You're describing fleeting moments of pleasure. Happiness is a state of mind, which is what we all aim for thorugh the work we're each pursuing here. The man you're describing is not happy when he's told the expensive medical bill for the emergency procedure he needs to pay upfront right now or he'll die. He's not happy when he's confronted by men who want to rob him and harm his girl on the street. He's not happy when he's passed up for opportunities by other men who play to win at life, and not just play to not lose. Happiness has a clear definition and cannot be achieved when your life is dictated by terms you give up control to like the man you describe.
ONE You hang out with your accountant on a daily basis?
TWO You are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with. If you spend time with people with poor mindsets, guess who you'll become?
Again pay attention to the posed questions and statements being made BEFORE you respond. You're missing obvious cues that even Stevie Wonder could read. All over a topic that was never broached until you brought it up yourself. A topic where you accusing men of being close-minded while you yourself are closing your mind to the idea that all of us here have different values, and yet we're connected and respectful of one another. Get smart Brother.
Make haste slowly
joelsuf
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This guy gets it.
I instruct martial arts, it's a great space for men with a low level of self respect to gain confidence and move on after making friends and gaining skills. I also treat ill people who are at a lower point in thier life to help build then up. I have no problem hanging out with people like this for various reasons as people offer value to each other in many different ways. This is a group of men looking to develop themselves, many of you have knowledge I do not, I have knowledge many of you do not, I do not stress over the collective level of self respect you all have. That's a strange thing to worry about.
I once met a man who wanted nothing more than to drive busses with his life. Retired, happily married, no major drives beyond that. By every objective measurement of happiness we have he had won. That life would bore the crap out of you and me but we aren't him and have no reason to judge someone by our standards. Individuals are hardwired differently, psychological drives, different hormone levels etc.
1. Tree surgeon I know hangs out with his employees on a daily basis, all he needs to know is they show up and get the job done. I doubt he frets about thier personal fulfillment.
2. Who will I become? Whoever I want based on values obtained via good research, because I'm not a sheep. Noone I know believes in sexual non monogamy, doesn't stop me. I'd rather set trends myself.
I rather think I'm very open to the idea of everyone here having different values and ideas, which is why I frame my argument using examples and words like "to my knowledge" and "I disagree" rather than for example "False.".
I see several in that post above yours.
Ok well with that I think we're past the point where this is a constructive debate for anyone. I'm sure you'll want the last post like "get smart" or something though so go nuts.