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TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Long time Blackdragon lurker here, but only recently started practicing non-monogamy.
This spawned from a recent LTR breakup over kids (she wanted them, I don't - more on this below). I still have a bunch of SP and OBW to clear out, which is why I thought it would be good to come around to the forums - to get some advice from the pros!

My name is Dan and I am late 30s. I have had 2 serious long term relationships in my life (one for 12 years [married for 5 of them], then divorce and a recently ended 5 year LTR that started 2 months after my divorce). Basically serial monogamy for me. However, I am tired of tying my source of love and affection to just one girl; it has always ended in heartache and it sucks.

The recent breakup (1.5 months ago) took an extra toll on me and is still swirling in my head because of my ex-LTR's actions post-breakup. We basically had a great relationship - lots of sex (3-5 times a week consistently, passionate, blowjobs, etc...), lots of affection, shared interests. However, we had broken up 2 times before (for about a month each). This happened because of the kid issue, but I feel like it also reset the relationship timer when we got back together (maybe keeping things fresh).
The latest breakup is about 1.5 years after we separated for a month (and saw other people - yeah we both move quickly). This time I thought it was for good because she is 34 and want(ed) kids, so she has to get moving. However, after a couple weeks (and me already banging a new chick) she contacted me and said now she doesn't want kids any more! She's been trying to convince me of it since then and is warning me that if I don't take her back soon she is going to move on (basically she will fuck her beta orbiter - he's a fucking pussy, so I really don't care). I have been non-reactive to this and told her that she can be in my life, but not exclusively (even though, admittedly, it is causing me stress because I am suffering from some Oneitis). This is where I am at right now - head is still spinning, thinking I could have this great girl forever, but not really wanting to give up the other girls in my life. Also, I am skeptical that she really does not want kids now (though she has been very convincing). There is more to that story, but I have already posted a word wall here. I can add more later if anyone is interested.

We talked the other night (oh yeah, we've had sex several times since the breakup and I have made her cum multiple times each session) and I told her I would see her non-exclusively, but she said she couldn't do that and said her peace. She told me to contact her if I want to get back together, but that she is leaving the ball in my court. I am not planning on contacting her - I think that is the proper thing to do?

Has anyone else been there? I appreciate any and all feedback (I have thick skin). I really respect BD and this community. Let me know what you guys think.
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Mar 11, 2019
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Welcome Brother to the fun. I'm going to move this conversation to the more appropriate thread, "Women / Relationship Management". If you still want to introduce yourself you can do that here: https://alpha20community.com/index.php?threads/new-member-introductions.19/

Let's dive into this.

1— Congratulations. What you're doing is not easy, but you know better and doing the best you can to manage your new life. Welcome to the Brotherhood.

2— Date more women. Get at least two women into your harem. Women who you're attracted to, who are low-drama, a non-bitchy. At least two. I recommend as many possible, and I even go the distance of tasking women with specific roles in my life that help me grow my Empire. Some will be ONSs can't be helped, but they will give you more perspective on this new take you're living. Date. Date a lot. Challenge yourself to date different girls. Aim for 18-25. It'll be more work for you upfront, but when you do you'll easily realize that your old girl is not all that.

3— Stop having sex with your old flame. She's gonna keep coming back, which isn't healthy for her, and she's affecting your sanity too. Going back to her in the state you're in will only regress your progress so far. Fuck that. You like how you are. Yes it's tough losing someone you care about, but there are so many others who will dwarf her in the coming months. She's your plan B right now, which means you'll settle for her. This lifestyle is not about settling. You need to focus on your one and only Plan A. Next time you want to fuck her, text all the other girls you're currently dating. That's the rule stick to it.

4— Focus your attention on what matters. Start with your fitness. Is it dialed in? Are you strong, in shape, and have the stamina to do the things you want to do? If not get to it. If yes, focus on mastering women. Study why women do what they do. I have many texts to recommend. Once you learn this, you'll see why your X is doing what she's doing. Follow her lead and you'll drown. But man up, understand all women psychology, and then you can lead them to your advantage. this is Bigger than just sex. Choose fitness or women, fitness is the priority.

If it's solid choose women, which is why you're here I'm assuming.
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Thanks man, I appreciate the reply and the perspective. I really need this interaction at the moment.

I have been consistently lifting for 5 years, so I have an athletic look that I am proud of. I have very active hobbies (volleyball, rock climbing, tennis), so that area is handled.

I definitely need to work on the woman side and my neediness (with the ex especially). Not contacting the ex is pretty rough at this point, but I know it is just the hormonal reaction to a long term breakup. I just keep thinking about the awesome sex we had, lol. I definitely need to get more women into the rotation. Right now I have 5 women's numbers, but I have been flaking a bit the dates (due to ex... ugh). I have one tonight, though.

I was thinking of starting a new activity (martial art or dancing), but I need to leave some time for getting my woman life in order.

Thanks,
Dan
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Mar 11, 2019
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You're a divorced man. You know what's at stake if you let a women lead you. Remember that. Remember that feeling in your balls. That tickle that says, they're about to get kicked. Should be reminder enough.

There are ways to play this in your favor, but the all start with you building your harem with many women who are not your X. Assert your dominance. Learn women's psychology. Don't confuse sex and love.

Here's a big thing.... your level of sexual pleasure in a realtionship is based on how well you lead. Lead well and you'll have a woman begging for sex with you to the point she'll do things to rock your world, and learn to go even further. Again, you need to learn more about women then you'll start to realize sex is not a big deal when you can command loyalty on demand in many other ways.

To start read this: The Manipulated Man by Esther Vilar. You'll better appreciate what's happening in your life and rise above it.
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Thanks again Lenox. I will read that book.

The date was bad tonight, mainly because she did not look as good as her photos (not surprised). That makes me miss the ex more, of course, but I can power through it. It's going to be rough for a while. Fortunately I do have a FB situation going with the first chick I met and she is fun. I just need to add a couple more.
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Whew, another rough day here. Thinking about the ex constantly. Damn you OBW! Definitely feeling withdrawal symptoms. It is taking all of my willpower not to call her and get back together. I am still setting up dates with other women even though my body doesn't want to. Just needed to vent a little. Why is this stuff so rough?
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Mar 11, 2019
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You put your X and/or the sex with her and/or the relationship with her on a pedestal. Thus little else feels as good. You're addicted.

With all addictions you can either withdraw completely, substitute, or become a new person who changes the way you think about it altogether.

The steps I outlined will help you do all 3 options.

Ultimately, all women are the same. There is no one special one. Only ones who are loyal and respect you, adn the rest. Thing is loyalty and respect take time to develop. Right now she's not loyal to you (or herself), and she definitely doesn't respect you (or herself).

Why would you want to invest in such an unhealthy partner?
 

hollywood

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May 21, 2019
Messages
39
Look Lenox is more experienced than me but I'm going to disagree with one thing. I don't think you have to let your ex go. You can convert her to an mltr or fb and actually the steps you've taken so far seem perfect for that. You should not contact her, you should not agree to things on her terms and you did neither. If she's as amazing as you say she is, she will eventually die inside without you and contact you anyway, right?

So go on those dates knowing that your ex will probably eventually contact you back. Try to add as many girs to you roster as would make you happy. Make sure that if she looks you up or checks you out online that she either finds nothing, or evidence you are seeing other women that are hotter. She will stew and eventually wonder why you haven't came crawling back and contact you at some point. You need to be a different man with her than in the past. Do not give in to any demands.

When she contacts you, you need to tell her you'd like to meet up for some fun with the insinuation that you want sex. She might come back with something about needing a commitment from you first. If she does, you should let her know that you are real busy right now, and that you don't have time to discuss things at this point but you'd really like to see her. Whatever her response is, if it is not her agreeing to see you, end the conversation even if you have to give her radio silence. At that point she will at least know that you are not going to do things her way and if she ever wants to see you again, she will need to hook up with you and see where that goes.
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Ugh, I had a moment of weakness and texted her last night that I wanted to talk tonight (I know, it was dumb). I kind of expected her not to respomd, but she responded today agreeing to it. I feel like flaking on this will make things worse, but I don't plan on agreeing to her terms. Maybe I just reiterate my stance and leave it at that. What do you think I should do? Is it salvageable?
 
Last edited:

hollywood

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May 21, 2019
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Yeah you can't flake unless you want to drive her totally away. You definitely shouldn't have text her first. I suppose you can try and get in her pants without agreeing to anything but she may take that as you agreeing to a committment. All I know is you are being much to weak with her. You're going to need to be a bit of a hardass. You do realize that causing her frustration usually will increase attraction especially if it is because you are not caving to her demands.

Here's an example I just used this morning. MLTR trying to get an extra day with me. I cancelled our normal day and am giving her two days in a row earlier in the week instead. She started complaining about not getting her normal day. I told her I wasn't going to see her these extra two days plus her normal day. She brought it up again. I told her I wasn't discussing it and if she brought it up again I'd cancel the meet entirely. She actually bitched some more and I probably should have put her on a soft next, but I told her "I am not meeting with you Saturday and I am not dealing with even the slightest bullshit now or for the rest of the week." She cut the bullshit and all is well. Not getting their way actually increases attraction but you have to be unafraid for her to walk away over it. Usually its all smoke and BS when they act like they are going to leave you over not getting their way, and if they do leave you over that, they are too dramatic anyway.
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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So you think I should meet up with her, then? And just hold my ground (that may frustrate her because we already talked about it). I was also thinking of sending a text along the lines of "Sorry, that was just my dick talking", but that seems too much of a dick thing to do, lol. As you can see, I have some learning to do.

I appreciate the feedback.
 

hollywood

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May 21, 2019
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I'd think an Alpha keeps his word, you asked to meet, already went beta, so nothing is guaranteed here, but you've had sex with her before, why can't you just get in her pants and avoid any actual discussion? And yeah, may have to frustrate her, so what, that increases attraction. In all reality, you are probably going to have to boldly let her go most likely and then go no contact and hope she comes back. But since you went this route, you can meet her and just "hold your ground" I'd say just be smooth and work your way in to her pants, but it sounds like she is the dominant one in this pairing and so you are having trouble being a man/alpha. Giving in or making excuses at this point will just make you weaker in her eyes.
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Mar 11, 2019
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Guys too much dependency on keeping these women in your life.

Be OI.

Respect yourself.

These women don't respect you if they ask you to compromise yourself.

If your goal is to be A2.0, then follow Caleb's advice and mine.

If not, then yes walk back to your younger self and do all the things he would do.

Who doesn't like taking the advice of their younger self?
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Field Report.
We met up and talked for a long time. I told her my position and stuck to it. She tried to get exclusive commitment from me. I'll admit, it was very hard not to cave and just get back with her. I am very attracted to her and we have a great physical/emotional connection. However, I know that is the path to unhappiness (eventually), so I said no to exclusivity.

I said that I loved her and would be willing to see her still, just not exclusively. She said that she couldn't do that and didn't "deserve" to be treated like that. She also mentioned how she wanted to go fuck some guy because she was horny (makes no sense because she could just fuck someone she trusts (me), but whatever). I feel like that was just a mind game and I didn't like it, though it did elicit an internal response of jealousy. I think I masked it okay, but maybe not.

Anyway, at one point things got hot and heavy and we nearly had sex, but she stopped short saying that we needed to get back together before we could have sex (using the pussy to control me). It was hard as shit, but I said no and got up. Then she said something along the lines of "Well go have fun with that other girl then!", clearly upset. I said nothing and left.

So that's that. Overall I probably didn't handle it perfectly, but I feel like I did right by me. It's hard as hell to not just call her up and get back together because I really do love her. I just feel like that is the wrong path to take. Hopefully I will see that at some point and not regret this decision.

I clearly have some major neediness and oneitis to deal with. The neediness is what makes me want to call her.

Lenox, I will do my best to follow your advice. I started reading that Manipulated Man book, but it actually made me long for my ex because (in my mind) I feel like my ex was not like the girls described in the book (she is educated, independent, loyal, and wanted to please me). So I stopped reading it. I may need more time away before I can soak it in.

On another note, I have a date today and seeing another girl tonight.

Thoughts? Lenox? Hollywood?
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Mar 11, 2019
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Not a disaster.

1— Do you now see why meeting with her will always be a waste of your time but a lot of fun for her?
2— Never argue with a woman. They led with emotions while you lead with logic. It's like going to Japan and expecting to have a deep conversation about the cosmos in English. Not gonna happen.
3— You don't have oneitis. I want you to be yourself up and wake up from the delusion, but this is not an issue for you. You're dating and fucking other women, you're immune.
4— You love this woman. I don't think you should, but you do. Accept that. Nothing wrong with it. Don't beat yourself for being a human being with emotions.
5— When you start dating more women you won't have to hide being jealous... you just won't be jealous. OI for the win.

That's the gist, here's what happens next.

Right now she feels like a slut and doesn't want that. She wants commitment from the best man in her life, currently that's you. Many ways to play this, the best is what I said above. Permanent next.

If you can't do that, then don't. Simple.

You treat her like an FB and start the process all over again. Ignore the history and treat her like a friend you're getting to know better. She's a new person, and so are you. Talk with her once every 3-4 days to playfully plan logistics. Nothing more.

Everything you know about FBs then apply.

When she say asks if you're seeing other girls:

"About 12 right now, two for every day on the week. I rest on Sundays."

When she asks for commitment, you look at her and smile and say:

"We're two very new people at this point in our lives. We're getting to know each other and having fun"

This is what you do whenever there's a break. They don't automatically go to MLTR.

They earn it by being low-drama and non-bitchy.

Be straight with her. "You're on probation until I know it's worth it. If you want to be ride or die, and serious about being with me, then you have to prove it. Prove you're worth it so I know I don't need to talk with all these girls blowing up my phone 24/7."

Caleb doesn't recommend the above. That's a me thing, expert level, pimp move.

But again since you're just going to go through all the trouble of having her as an FB, you may as well just date five new girls who will add new fun to your life for about the same effort and with 10x more benefit to your health, peace of mind, happiness, and focus outside of women. Larger ROI.

Choice is yours.
 

hollywood

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May 21, 2019
Messages
39
I agree with Lenox and just need to add, I do not think you should contact her until she contacts you first, then make another attempt at getting in her pants. She will have to accept the fact that you will not commit to her prior to sex nor expect commitment after. I think since you went ahead and contacted her and ended up meeting with her that you did almost as well as it could. The test was her letting you get close to sex and not give it up. If you were weak she would have got you to commit. Now she knows she's not getting that. If she contacts you again, she likely will go along with the sex without commitment unless she is just looking for attention. You'll have to catch on to that.
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Thanks guys, I appreciate it. I know I still have stuff to work on and I'll do my best. It's a big change for me at 38 years old.

I still have SP to work out of my system. The main one hitting me right now is the "will I regret giving up this girl later and be lonely in old age". No matter how much I know that is not true, it pops into my head constantly. 38 years of programming will take some time to get rid of.

When I'm with one of my new girls it feels great and I say "this is what I want", but when I am alone, that shit starts creeping back into my head and driving me nuts. I feel great right now because I was with a great FB last night, but I know the crap will pile into my head again later haha.

Again, thanks for the advice and putting up with my neediness. It is theraputic.
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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If Present-You cannot do this yet... become a new man.

That's what A2.0 is. Take it a step further. Change your name, outfit, accent. Whatever it takes to adopt a persona that can do all the things TheDan cannot.

Hard to believe, but my parents didn't name me Caveman. Yet wherever I go, I introduce my self like James Bond: "I'm lenox. Caveman lenox"

Caveman lenox can do all the things that young, dumb, and full of cum lenox didn't dare dream. Now I live it and set the standard higher because Caveman is invincible.

Act as if until you make it real.

Start by establishing your code (persona's) code: https://lenoxjones.com/a-man-gotta-have-a-code/
 

TheDan

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Jul 22, 2019
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Thanks Lenox. I am working on my code. I have some written down, but I need to review. Next is my mission - that will be harder. I have gotten too comfortable in life (great paying job - on way to early retirement, had a good relationship, kind of settled in), but I think I realize it has taken my drive away. I have gotten bored and need to light that fire again. I have taken on a new position at work where I will be travelling more. Also, seeing new women is helping, but the "security" and comfort of the Ex would be so easy to slip back into. It's hard not to compare new to old.

I'm working on getting over the SP of "ending up alone and lonely" as I tend to be more of an emotional guy (at least with respect to relationships). It doesn't help that it is reinforced by people who know my current situation. I think a mission will help. I know getting back with the Ex will not, even though my emotions are telling me otherwise. Thinking about her giving the love she gives me to someone else hurts pretty bad, I'm not ashamed to admit it. I have to keep reminding myself that the relationship would likely have gone sour at some point.

Any other tips?
 
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