No success in online dating - what am I doing wrong?

Gulliver

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I tried directly stating I'm not monogamous, I tried not saying anything about it. I picked my best photos via photofeeler.com (best vas 6.2/10). Tried different photos, different descriptions, different openers.

Tried Tinder, paid and free, POF, OKCupid, and some Hungarian dating sites (I'm a small rural town in Hungary).
I had a very low match rate on tinder. Typically around 4-5 matches a week. From this only 1-2 responds. Then flakes.

Reading this I don't know how do they achieve success. https://blackdragonblog.com/2018/08/16/verbalizing-nonmonogamy-right-up-front/

I watched lots of dating advice videos on youtube. I read an ebook about how to use tinder by Simple Pickup. None of this seemed to work.

I'd say I'm an average looking guy, and I'm 34. Some girls even described me as handsome. Here's one result card from photofeeler on one of my photos: https://cl.ly/e1a20ec1f337

What am I doing wrong?
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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We need more information.

Share screen shots of your profiles. Tell us geographic location.

Also how are you opening women? What women are you opening/swiping?

How many are you opening? How often?

Screenshots of the match conversations.

Lots of variables at play, but share more and we'll assess to help you turn things around smoothly Brother.
 

Gulliver

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We need more information.

Share screen shots of your profiles. Tell us geographic location.
Can I send you in private?
Location: Hungary, small rural town, don't want to disclose my location publicly.

Also, how are you opening women? What women are you opening/swiping?

How many are you opening? How often?
I'm swiping right/message women I like age between 18-32

My opener is usually contextual if I can't make it contextual I use some of my templates:

Here are a couple of templates:

"Sweet baby Jesus! Tell your parents good job ;)"

"Are you one of those girls who takes forever to do her hair and make up, or does it just look that way?"

"Looks like we both at least have one thing going for us…great taste ha"

I also tried this based to Swipe Text Date ebook

"We’ll either come along like Neo and Trinity or become enemies like the Oracle and the Architect. The reason I’m writing to you is that going through your profile I feel that you are a cute girl who has a good sense of humor.

I like being in the company of people who want to live their lives to the utmost, who love adventure and can have a good laugh. It’s my impression that you’re the type of girl who likes these things, too."

Screenshots of the match conversations.
It's in Hungarian, but I'll try to translate


This conversation was the longest
Then I asked her where she was from. She was from Romania but close to the border so we could meet in a city in the middle.
Then we talked about alcohol and what she likes and what I like
No answer after this
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Can I send you in private?
Location: Hungary, small rural town, don't want to disclose my location publicly.
Of course. You never have to ask.

Although, you can block out that data by editing the shots.

Plus by posting, you'd be helping ALL the men here, and the most important man here— You.

I'm swiping right/message women I like age between 18-32
From now on keep a log. Measure everything so we can see what the numbers say. To that point, if you're in a small, rural town, you have to accept that the numbers aren't in your favor. Solution, you must work smarter to close dates.


"Sweet baby Jesus! Tell your parents good job ;)"

"Are you one of those girls who takes forever to do her hair and make up, or does it just look that way?"

"Looks like we both at least have one thing going for us…great taste ha"
I see what's happening. All of these are generic, needy, and common. Girls don't like boring, desperate, average men. This alone might be the biggest hindrance to you.

Let's change it by focusing on what's important to you in woman you want to meet. Two questions:

1— What's your goal... Do you want an FB, MLTR, OLTR, ONS, gf, wife, Threesome, maid, etc? (Something bigger. Something different)

2— What are the top five traits of YOUR ideal woman? (Be honest with yourself because what you ask for is what you get)

I also tried this based to Swipe Text Date ebook
Don't know what this is. Don't need to. It's clearly not helping. Stop using it. Wipe it from your memory and read and reread this thread to internalize what you'll know be applying, testing, and adjusting.

"We’ll either come along like Neo and Trinity or become enemies like the Oracle and the Architect.
Perfect. Absolutely excellent example for you and everyone here.

Of what NOT to do.

You are a magnificent man who is smart, powerful, and strong. Convey that in all that you say and do in life. Never present yourself as a dork who doesn't know how women work and that they would never respond positively to this.

Never again Brother.

The reason I’m writing to you is that going through your profile I feel that you are a cute girl who has a good sense of humor.

I like being in the company of people who want to live their lives to the utmost, who love adventure and can have a good laugh. It’s my impression that you’re the type of girl who likes these things, too."
Too on the nose. This is a girl you want to meet, get to know, fuck, and have follow you into adventure with no certainty of making it to the happy ever after. It's your job to inspire her to qualify her to you. You're giving her a free pas to lie to you and tell you she's everything you want, like she does with ALL other guys she preys on. That's not you Brother.

But none of that matters since this is too logical and not emotional. It's too wordy, not visually pleasing to the eye or imagination's eye.

I'll help you more with this, nce you tell us your goals and the type of women you want.
 

Gulliver

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Thanks for your helpful response man!

I'll keep a log.

By the way, those were just some template openers I got from the internet, the architect and neo template was from the Swipe Text Date ebook by Simple Pickup, the guy was saying he got lots of dates through that stuff. And I did not copy-paste his template, I customized it. LOL. Right. Erase.

But have you seen the screenshots I shared here (at the bottom of my previous response), mostly with my custom openers? That's what I do nowadays, custom genuine responses. (I hope that will help other forum members I just didn't want to show my face)

1— What's your goal... Do you want an FB, MLTR, OLTR, ONS, gf, wife, Threesome, maid, etc? (Something bigger. Something different)
I want MLTRs/Wives (I already have one wife just for the record) and I'd also want some FBs. I'm 34 and I lived most of my adult life as a "holy" Christian, and I would not even entertain the idea of having sex with a woman who I'm not married to. I dropped Christianity a year ago for good and now I'm free. So I feel I missed out on a lot and want to make up for it LOL. I have a wife who doesn't believe in marriage, and she knows I'm non-monogamous. I told her directly I want more. She was pissed at first but accepted it and said she respects it and wants to see how it works out - not that she likes it but, hey, she thinks long term relationships don't work. So anyway, she is the only woman I had sex with in my entire life.

2— What are the top five traits of YOUR ideal woman? (Be honest with yourself because what you ask for is what you get)
  1. Hot look
  2. Non-feminist, non-bitchy, mature adult woman
  3. Humbleness/submissiveness
  4. Good communicator especially at times of conflict (I want no drama)
  5. Can help me practically / contribute to my economy/business/homestead
Obviously 3-5 is only prerequisite for MLTR/Wife but even for a FB I don't want a bitchy woman so for FB still applies points 1-2
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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I just didn't want to show my face
You're among men you can trust here. However, if you want true anonymity, SMIC may be a better fit to be open and visible without danger since we keep it locked down even tighter. http://www.sovereignmaninnercircle.com/join.html

So I feel I missed out on a lot and want to make up for it LOL
You've missed nothing in life. You're a man who is deciding to add so much more to his life because why not. That's the mindset.

have a wife who doesn't believe in marriage,
Have you read Caleb's book on this topic. His experience is more valuable than anything I can say on the subject. http://www.open-marriage.com/

Likewise, It'd be appropriate to manage expectations, and make sure you're legally protected and prepared for a separation and divorce. This will give you peace of mind, and more courage for the upcoming steps. I imagine Caleb covers this topic in his work.


  1. Hot look
  2. Non-feminist, non-bitchy, mature adult woman
  3. Humbleness/submissiveness
  4. Good communicator especially at times of conflict (I want no drama)
  5. Can help me practically / contribute to my economy/business/homestead
Tighten this up a bit more. Not ultra specific, but more positive. Some of this reads as butthurt. Think of positive traits that inspire and motivate you, and choose those qualities and traits in your women. Also become aware of your TM to hep you define this list. When you update it, let me know because these will help you in opening and talking with women.

Obviously 3-5 is only prerequisite for MLTR/Wife but even for a FB I don't want a bitchy woman so for FB still applies points 1-2
Stand tall in this process. Set a standard. Own it. Don't talk yourself into or out of it. If you do it with yourself, you'll do it with women. You probably already do it with OLTR. Pick up on this now and act accordingly. This is YOUR life. Make it a happy one and don't negotiate your non-negotiables.
 

Gulliver

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You're among men you can trust here. However, if you want true anonymity, SMIC may be a better fit to be open and visible without danger since we keep it locked down even tighter. http://www.sovereignmaninnercircle.com/join.html

You've missed nothing in life. You're a man who is deciding to add so much more to his life because why not. That's the mindset.
Why is this a better mindset? I sure have regrets.

Have you read Caleb's book on this topic. His experience is more valuable than anything I can say on the subject. http://www.open-marriage.com/

Likewise, It'd be appropriate to manage expectations, and make sure you're legally protected and prepared for a separation and divorce. This will give you peace of mind, and more courage for the upcoming steps. I imagine Caleb covers this topic in his work.
You mean it's quite likely she wants to divorce me?
I'm planning to buy the book, It's out of stock on amazon.co.uk, and I want the printed book because I hate reading on the screen.

Tighten this up a bit more. Not ultra specific, but more positive. Some of this reads as butthurt. Think of positive traits that inspire and motivate you, and choose those qualities and traits in your women. Also become aware of your TM to hep you define this list. When you update it, let me know because these will help you in opening and talking with women.
I wouldn't say it's butthurt, it's just realistic in this feminist and gynocentric world. But here is a more refined one as per your request.

  1. Hot look, preferably white, shorter than me (175 cm), no tattoos, no piercing, long hair, age 18-29 optimally.
  2. Non-feminist, non-bitchy, mature adult woman - this is important, I can't change this. I could perhaps add I'd prefer college girls with laid back attitude. But working women are ok too, as long as they are not in a corporate management position.
  3. Humbleness/submissiveness - wants to be lead by a man as opposed to the strong independent woman.
  4. Good communicator especially at times of conflict (I want no drama) - I can't change that either.
  5. Can help me practically / contribute to my economy/business/homestead - can't change on this either.
Stand tall in this process. Set a standard. Own it. Don't talk yourself into or out of it. If you do it with yourself, you'll do it with women. You probably already do it with OLTR. Pick up on this now and act accordingly. This is YOUR life. Make it a happy one and don't negotiate your non-negotiables.
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Why is this a better mindset? I sure have regrets.
Because it says everything in my past has purpose. It brought me to this Forum, Caleb's work, the Caveman, a new band of brothers, to myc current life, which I enjoy and am continually making better with purposeful intention.

Your past is a canoe.

Think:
The canoe brought me to this distant shore safely.
Now I continue my journey.
But I must leave the canoe behind.
Where I go now, it cannot follow.
On I go.
The Epic continues ....
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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You mean it's quite likely she wants to divorce me?
If this is the first time you've come to realize this, you are behind. The real question is are you sure you want to stay with her forever, and is she going to be an asset to help you build the future you want for yourself?


I wouldn't say it's butthurt, it's just realistic in this feminist and gynocentric world. But here is a more refined one as per your request.
If you believe this is true, you're not understanding Caleb's work. Plus you're living in fear. A fearful man can never be happy and find love. Also... Fear based decisions are never realistic. Drop the "Moan-Ass-Fear" logic. It serves nothing at all. Go hang with Rollo and the gang, if that's what you want. In here we see reality for what it really is and notice

"oh #FakeFeminism is harmless, and I can do what I want and have Great success, and women will actually celebrate me for it. Glad I ditched that fearful mindset."


Non-feminist, non-bitchy, mature adult woman - this is important, I can't change this. I could perhaps add I'd prefer college girls with laid back attitude. But working women are ok too, as long as they are not in a corporate management position.
Yes you can. You choose not to though, which will hurt you. 96% of women are not feminist. All women can be bitchy. Women in general are just pretty children.

What does that mean? It means Don't fight nature, work with it. As long as you are the best man you can be, kind, generous, caring, and supportive women will flock to you. They will bitch occasionally, but you'll know how to keep them in line. Also feminist though they love men like you aim to be, they will stay away from you. All 4% of them haha

Man up and leave your imaginary fears on the canoe.

Act with purpose and intention to attract all the positive people and things you say that you want in your life.
 

Gulliver

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Right, well I didn't mean I'm depressed by my past, I know it was for a purpose and I take it that way, but I also see that I want to make up for certain things that I didn't do. I don't see any problems with that.
 

Gulliver

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If this is the first time you've come to realize this, you are behind. The real question is are you sure you want to stay with her forever, and is she going to be an asset to help you build the future you want for yourself?
I do realize this is a possibility but as I mentioned to you she's aware of what's going on. That's why I asked you why so certain I should protect myself legally?

If you believe this is true, you're not understanding Caleb's work. Plus you're living in fear. A fearful man can never be happy and find love. Also... Fear based decisions are never realistic. Drop the "Moan-Ass-Fear" logic. It serves nothing at all. Go hang with Rollo and the gang, if that's what you want. In here we see reality for what it really is and notice
I do understand his work, but I certainly disagree with him on certain things. Not sure why being realistic about how feminism have destroyed the family and society is a bad thing. I'm the type of person who don't like to give in to the norm. If my goal was just to be happy and successful I wouldn't be a truther and talk about it publicly. I would just get on with my life, have a business and who cares about the rest. That's not me. It's not authentic to who I am. Not sure why you think I fear? Also, who is Rollo and the gang?

"oh #FakeFeminism is harmless, and I can do what I want and have Great success, and women will actually celebrate me for it. Glad I ditched that fearful mindset."
Never seen that hashtag. Not sure what's your point here. I will not comply with feminism just to be happy and successful.

Yes you can. You choose not to though, which will hurt you. 96% of women are not feminist. All women can be bitchy. Women in general are just pretty children.
The way I experience the world is showing a much higher percentage. I would probably say 70% is feminist one way or another due to mass programming of the mainstream media.

What does that mean? It means Don't fight nature, work with it. As long as you are the best man you can be, kind, generous, caring, and supportive women will flock to you. They will bitch occasionally, but you'll know how to keep them in line. Also feminist though they love men like you aim to be, they will stay away from you. All 4% of them haha
Nature never told women to be bitchy or feminist. So I'm not fighting nature if I fight anything that's the unnatural state of society.

Man up and leave your imaginary fears on the canoe.

Act with purpose and intention to attract all the positive people and things you say that you want in your life.
Man up from what? Did I come here to moan or complain? You just asked my what type of women I want lol.
 

Gulliver

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I'm planning to do a makeover photoshoot. I mentioned that in private.
But here it seems like this thread was stuck at that I just have to change my 5 points to be more positive. Was it not it? So unless I make the 5 points positive there's not much help for me?

I also shared some non-template messages but I guess because I still haven't made those 5 points more positive I didn't get any analysis on them?
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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We can discuss everything here. You can share photos privately, if that makes you feel comfortable though.

Until you have the photos, nothing else matters in terms of approaching women. Those photos will help you build your persona as a competent, powerful man. Showcase them on apps like IG and your favorite dating apps.

What you can do is establish the proper frame you want/need to attract the women you like. This frame must be consistent online and offline. In the meantime, use affirmations to develop that mindset and lifestyle. I highly recommend UNCHAINED MAN for the nitty-gritty details.

Channel a man who is fearless and in control of his life.

A great way to do that is to dive deeper into your work with more focus and get some BIG wins with what you're building. If that's not an area you can build focus on another life area can give you an easy win in a short amount of time. This will help give you the consitency of frame on-and offline
 

Gulliver

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I see.
By the way, what's your opinion on my (non-template) messages that I shared above? Were they any good?
I will do the photo as soon as I can and share them privately.
I'm working on my wins in my music and youtube career as we speak!
 

lenox

Caveman lenox
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Everything you had above is awful, which is why you have the results you have

That's why we're building you into a new man to have improved results

As far as openers go, never resemble the thousands of men and what they say, which is what yours did

Be original, counterintuitive, unique

She already knows you're into her so ignore making it obvious and connect with her in a way no man ever would
 

Gulliver

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I don't understand. Awful in what way? What is a better way then?
Those were not templates and what thousands of other men said. They were original, perhaps you missed it I meant these ones:


This conversation was the longest
Then I asked her where she was from. She was from Romania but close to the border so we could meet in a city in the middle.
Then we talked about alcohol and what she likes and what I like
No answer after this
 

Gulliver

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There you exactly responded to the templates I used in the past, and fair enough they suck and used by other thousands of men. However the screenshots I shared I didn't use these. They were mostly original openers.

Could you please have a look again?
 
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